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[RFC,net-next,0/7] Add basic SyncE interfaces

Message ID 20210816160717.31285-1-arkadiusz.kubalewski@intel.com
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Series Add basic SyncE interfaces | expand

Message

Kubalewski, Arkadiusz Aug. 16, 2021, 4:07 p.m. UTC
SyncE - Synchronous Ethernet is defined in ITU-T Rec. G.8264
(https://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-G.8264)

SyncE allows synchronizing the frequency of ethernet PHY clock signal
(the frequency used to send the data onto wire), to some reference
clock signal.

Multiple reference clock sources can be available. PHY ports recover
the frequency at which the transmitter sent the data on the RX side.
Alternatively, we can use external sources like 1PPS GPS, etc.

This patch series introduces basic interfaces for communication
with a SyncE capable device.

The first part of the interface allows acquiring the synchronization
state of DPLL (Digital Phase Locked Loop). DPLL LOCKED state means
that the frequency generated by it is locked to the input frequency.
As a result, PHYs connected to it are synchronized to the chosen input
frequency signal.

The second part can be used to select the port from which the clock
gets recovered. Each PHY chip can have multiple pins on which the
recovered clock can be propagated. For example, a SyncE-capable PHY
can recover the carrier frequency of the first port, divide it
internally, and output it as a reference clock on PIN 0.
When such a signal is enabled, the DPLL can LOCK to the frequency
recovered on PIN 0.

Next steps:
 - Add CONFIG_SYNCE definition into Kconfig
 - Add more configuration interfaces. Aiming at devlink, since this
   would be device-wide configuration

Arkadiusz Kubalewski (7):
  ptp: Add interface for acquiring DPLL state
  selftests/ptp: Add usage of PTP_DPLL_GETSTATE ioctl in testptp
  ice: add get_dpll_state ptp interface usage
  net: add ioctl interface for recover reference clock on netdev
  selftests/net: Add test app for SIOC{S|G}SYNCE
  ice: add SIOC{S|G}SYNCE interface usage to recover reference signal
  ice: add sysfs interface to configure PHY recovered reference signal

 .../net/ethernet/intel/ice/ice_adminq_cmd.h   |  62 +++++
 drivers/net/ethernet/intel/ice/ice_common.c   | 101 ++++++++
 drivers/net/ethernet/intel/ice/ice_common.h   |   9 +
 drivers/net/ethernet/intel/ice/ice_main.c     |   4 +
 drivers/net/ethernet/intel/ice/ice_ptp.c      | 234 +++++++++++++++++-
 drivers/net/ethernet/intel/ice/ice_ptp.h      |   9 +
 drivers/net/ethernet/intel/ice/ice_ptp_hw.h   |   6 +
 drivers/ptp/ptp_chardev.c                     |  15 ++
 drivers/ptp/ptp_clockmatrix.h                 |  12 -
 drivers/ptp/ptp_private.h                     |   2 +
 drivers/ptp/ptp_sysfs.c                       |  48 ++++
 include/linux/ptp_clock_kernel.h              |   9 +
 include/uapi/linux/net_synce.h                |  21 ++
 include/uapi/linux/ptp_clock.h                |  27 ++
 include/uapi/linux/sockios.h                  |   4 +
 net/core/dev_ioctl.c                          |   6 +-
 tools/testing/selftests/net/Makefile          |   1 +
 tools/testing/selftests/net/phy_ref_clk.c     | 138 +++++++++++
 tools/testing/selftests/ptp/testptp.c         |  27 +-
 19 files changed, 720 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 include/uapi/linux/net_synce.h
 create mode 100644 tools/testing/selftests/net/phy_ref_clk.c


base-commit: aba1e4adb54e020d3ca85a4df3ef0f8febe87548

Comments

Arnd Bergmann Aug. 16, 2021, 7:46 p.m. UTC | #1
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 6:18 PM Arkadiusz Kubalewski
<arkadiusz.kubalewski@intel.com> wrote:

> +/*
> + * Structure used for passing data with SIOCSSYNCE and SIOCGSYNCE ioctls
> + */
> +struct synce_ref_clk_cfg {
> +       __u8 pin_id;
> +       _Bool enable;
> +};

I'm not sure if there are any guarantees about the size and alignment of _Bool,
maybe better use __u8 here as well, if only for clarity.

> +#endif /* _NET_SYNCE_H */
> diff --git a/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h b/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h
> index 7d1bccbbef78..32c7d4909c31 100644
> --- a/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h
> +++ b/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h
> @@ -153,6 +153,10 @@
>  #define SIOCSHWTSTAMP  0x89b0          /* set and get config           */
>  #define SIOCGHWTSTAMP  0x89b1          /* get config                   */
>
> +/* synchronous ethernet config per physical function */
> +#define SIOCSSYNCE     0x89c0          /* set and get config           */
> +#define SIOCGSYNCE     0x89c1          /* get config                   */

I understand that these are traditionally using the old-style 16-bit
numbers, but is there any reason to keep doing that rather than
making them modern like this?

#define SIOCSSYNCE     _IOWR(0x89, 0xc0, struct  synce_ref_clk_cfg)
/* set and get config   */
#define SIOCGSYNCE     _IOR(0x89, 0xc1, struct  synce_ref_clk_cfg)
/* get config   */

        Arnd
Richard Cochran Aug. 16, 2021, 11:54 p.m. UTC | #2
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 06:07:11PM +0200, Arkadiusz Kubalewski wrote:
> Previously there was no common interface for monitoring
> synchronization state of Digital Phase Locked Loop.
> 
> Add interface through PTP ioctl subsystem for tools,
> as well as sysfs human-friendly part of the interface.
> 
> enum dpll_state moved to uapi definition, it is required to
> have common definition of DPLL states in uapi.

This has nothing to do with PTP, right?

So why isn't it a RTNL feature instead?

Thanks,
Richard
Machnikowski, Maciej Aug. 17, 2021, 9:41 a.m. UTC | #3
> > Previously there was no common interface for monitoring

> > synchronization state of Digital Phase Locked Loop.

> >

> > Add interface through PTP ioctl subsystem for tools, as well as sysfs

> > human-friendly part of the interface.

> >

> > enum dpll_state moved to uapi definition, it is required to have

> > common definition of DPLL states in uapi.

> 

> This has nothing to do with PTP, right?

> 

> So why isn't it a RTNL feature instead?

> 

> Thanks,

> Richard



The logic behind adding the DPLL state to the PTP subsystem is that SyncE DPLL on Network adapters, in most cases, drive the PTP timer.
Having access to it in the PTP subsystem is beneficial, as Telco standards, like G.8275.1/2, require a different behavior depending on the SyncE availability and state.
Multiport adapters use a single PLL to drive all ports. If we add the PLL interface to the PTP device - a tool that would implement support for Telco standards would have a single source of information about the presence and state of physical sync.

Moreover, it'll open the path for implementing PLL state-aware ext_ts that would generate events only when the PLL device is locked to the incoming signals improving the quality of external TS events. I.e. an external PLL can be used to monitor incoming 1PPS signal and disable event generation when its frequency drifts off 1Hz by preset margins.
 
If we bind it to the Network port, a tool would need to find the port that owns the PLL and read the state from a different place, which sounds suboptimal. Additionally we'll lose ability to rely on external HW to monitor external TS events.
 
Regards
Maciek
Kubalewski, Arkadiusz Aug. 17, 2021, 10:35 a.m. UTC | #4
>On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 6:18 PM Arkadiusz Kubalewski

><arkadiusz.kubalewski@intel.com> wrote:

>

>> +/*

>> + * Structure used for passing data with SIOCSSYNCE and SIOCGSYNCE ioctls

>> + */

>> +struct synce_ref_clk_cfg {

>> +       __u8 pin_id;

>> +       _Bool enable;

>> +};

>

>I'm not sure if there are any guarantees about the size and alignment of _Bool,

>maybe better use __u8 here as well, if only for clarity.

>


Sure, will fix that in next patch, seems reasonable

>> +#endif /* _NET_SYNCE_H */

>> diff --git a/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h b/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h

>> index 7d1bccbbef78..32c7d4909c31 100644

>> --- a/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h

>> +++ b/include/uapi/linux/sockios.h

>> @@ -153,6 +153,10 @@

>>  #define SIOCSHWTSTAMP  0x89b0          /* set and get config           */

>>  #define SIOCGHWTSTAMP  0x89b1          /* get config                   */

>>

>> +/* synchronous ethernet config per physical function */

>> +#define SIOCSSYNCE     0x89c0          /* set and get config           */

>> +#define SIOCGSYNCE     0x89c1          /* get config                   */

>

>I understand that these are traditionally using the old-style 16-bit

>numbers, but is there any reason to keep doing that rather than

>making them modern like this?


Personally I would try to keep it one way, just for consistency, 
but you might be right - making it modern way is better option.
If no other objections to this comment I am going to change it according to
Arnd's suggestion in next patch.

>

>#define SIOCSSYNCE     _IOWR(0x89, 0xc0, struct  synce_ref_clk_cfg)

>/* set and get config   */

>#define SIOCGSYNCE     _IOR(0x89, 0xc1, struct  synce_ref_clk_cfg)

>/* get config   */

>

>        Arnd

>


Thank you,
Arkadiusz
Richard Cochran Aug. 18, 2021, 5:02 p.m. UTC | #5
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:41:49AM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> The logic behind adding the DPLL state to the PTP subsystem is that SyncE DPLL on Network adapters, in most cases, drive the PTP timer.


So what?  The logic in the HW has nothing to do with the proper user
space interfaces.  For example, we have SO_TIMESTAMPING and PHC as
separate APIs, even though HW devices often implement both.

> Having access to it in the PTP subsystem is beneficial, as Telco

> standards, like G.8275.1/2, require a different behavior depending

> on the SyncE availability and state.


Right, but this does say anything about the API.

> Multiport adapters use a single PLL to drive all ports. If we add

> the PLL interface to the PTP device - a tool that would implement

> support for Telco standards would have a single source of

> information about the presence and state of physical sync.


Not really.  Nothing guarantees a sane mapping from MAC to PHC.  In
many systems, there a many of each.

> Moreover, it'll open the path for implementing PLL state-aware

> ext_ts that would generate events only when the PLL device is locked

> to the incoming signals improving the quality of external TS

> events. I.e. an external PLL can be used to monitor incoming 1PPS

> signal and disable event generation when its frequency drifts off

> 1Hz by preset margins.


I don't see how this prevents using RTNL (or something else) as the
API for the SyncE configuration.

> If we bind it to the Network port, a tool would need to find the

> port that owns the PLL and read the state from a different place,

> which sounds suboptimal.


This is exactly how it works in ptpl4 today.  Some information comes
from the PHC, some from RTNL (link state), some from ethtool
(phc-interface mapping and time stamping abilities).

> Additionally we'll lose ability to rely on external HW to monitor

> external TS events.


Sorry, I can't see that at all.

Please do NOT tack this stuff onto the PHC subsystem just because you
can.

Thanks,
Richard
Richard Cochran Aug. 18, 2021, 5:05 p.m. UTC | #6
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 06:07:10PM +0200, Arkadiusz Kubalewski wrote:

> The second part can be used to select the port from which the clock

> gets recovered. Each PHY chip can have multiple pins on which the

> recovered clock can be propagated. For example, a SyncE-capable PHY

> can recover the carrier frequency of the first port, divide it

> internally, and output it as a reference clock on PIN 0.


This really sounds like its own thing, and not a PHC at all.

> Next steps:

>  - Add CONFIG_SYNCE definition into Kconfig

>  - Add more configuration interfaces. Aiming at devlink, since this

>    would be device-wide configuration


As a first step, finding an appropriate kernel/user space API would be
needed.

Thanks,
Richard
Richard Cochran Aug. 18, 2021, 5:08 p.m. UTC | #7
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 06:07:10PM +0200, Arkadiusz Kubalewski wrote:

> Multiple reference clock sources can be available. PHY ports recover

> the frequency at which the transmitter sent the data on the RX side.

> Alternatively, we can use external sources like 1PPS GPS, etc.


There is a generic PHY subsystem (drivers/phy) used by USB, PCIe, CAN,
and so on.  Why not use that?

Thanks,
Richard
Jacob Keller Aug. 18, 2021, 6:14 p.m. UTC | #8
> -----Original Message-----

> From: Intel-wired-lan <intel-wired-lan-bounces@osuosl.org> On Behalf Of

> Richard Cochran

> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 10:03 AM

> To: Machnikowski, Maciej <maciej.machnikowski@intel.com>

> Cc: cong.wang@bytedance.com; arnd@arndb.de; gustavoars@kernel.org;

> netdev@vger.kernel.org; linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org;

> colin.king@canonical.com; intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org; nikolay@nvidia.com;

> linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org; kuba@kernel.org; shuah@kernel.org;

> davem@davemloft.net

> Subject: Re: [Intel-wired-lan] [RFC net-next 1/7] ptp: Add interface for acquiring

> DPLL state

> 

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:41:49AM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> 

> > The logic behind adding the DPLL state to the PTP subsystem is that SyncE DPLL

> on Network adapters, in most cases, drive the PTP timer.

> 

> So what?  The logic in the HW has nothing to do with the proper user

> space interfaces.  For example, we have SO_TIMESTAMPING and PHC as

> separate APIs, even though HW devices often implement both.

> 

> > Having access to it in the PTP subsystem is beneficial, as Telco

> > standards, like G.8275.1/2, require a different behavior depending

> > on the SyncE availability and state.

> 

> Right, but this does say anything about the API.

> 

> > Multiport adapters use a single PLL to drive all ports. If we add

> > the PLL interface to the PTP device - a tool that would implement

> > support for Telco standards would have a single source of

> > information about the presence and state of physical sync.

> 

> Not really.  Nothing guarantees a sane mapping from MAC to PHC.  In

> many systems, there a many of each.

> 


Well, I think the point of placing it in the PTP subsystem is that there is a sane mapping between PHC <-> DPLL. There's only one DPLL for the PHC.

Thanks,
Jake
Machnikowski, Maciej Aug. 18, 2021, 10:36 p.m. UTC | #9
> -----Original Message-----

> From: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>

> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 7:03 PM

> To: Machnikowski, Maciej <maciej.machnikowski@intel.com>

> Cc: Kubalewski, Arkadiusz <arkadiusz.kubalewski@intel.com>; linux-

> kernel@vger.kernel.org; intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org;

> netdev@vger.kernel.org; linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org; Brandeburg,

> Jesse <jesse.brandeburg@intel.com>; Nguyen, Anthony L

> <anthony.l.nguyen@intel.com>; davem@davemloft.net; kuba@kernel.org;

> shuah@kernel.org; arnd@arndb.de; nikolay@nvidia.com;

> cong.wang@bytedance.com; colin.king@canonical.com;

> gustavoars@kernel.org

> Subject: Re: [RFC net-next 1/7] ptp: Add interface for acquiring DPLL state

> 

> > Additionally we'll lose ability to rely on external HW to monitor

> > external TS events.

> 

> Sorry, I can't see that at all.

> 

> Please do NOT tack this stuff onto the PHC subsystem just because you can.

> 

> Thanks,

> Richard


OK, Let's take a step back and forget about SyncE. 
A PTP clock is a device that has a phase and a frequency, and its frequency can be adjusted using API calls.

On the other hand, there's the physical side of the PTP clock. The PTP clock can run on cheap quartz, on the CSAC, or the PLL. 
The first two of them will get a clock signal from a passive device, but in the PLL case, it'll get it from an active one.
If it runs on an active PLL device, you get another place that adjusts the frequency of your PTP clock. 
No matter what source you use as a reference for it - CSAC, SyncE, or GNSS receiver.

Adding the PLL state to the PTP subsystem is just another indicator of the state of the PTP clock. 
The upper layer can use it, or ignored it, but it fits into the timer subsystem, as the time generated by the PTP on top will be derived from the frequency generated by the PLL.
And it is applicable to both a PHC and a completely separate implementation of timer, like the one that's present in the Time Card .

Regards
Maciek
Richard Cochran Aug. 19, 2021, 3:34 p.m. UTC | #10
On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 10:36:03PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> OK, Let's take a step back and forget about SyncE. 


Ahem, the title of this series is:

    [RFC net-next 0/7] Add basic SyncE interfaces

I'd be happy to see support for configuring SyncE.

But I guess this series is about something totally different.


Thanks,
Richard
Machnikowski, Maciej Aug. 19, 2021, 3:40 p.m. UTC | #11
> -----Original Message-----

> From: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>

> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 5:34 PM

> To: Machnikowski, Maciej <maciej.machnikowski@intel.com>

> Cc: Kubalewski, Arkadiusz <arkadiusz.kubalewski@intel.com>; linux-

> kernel@vger.kernel.org; intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org;

> netdev@vger.kernel.org; linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org; Brandeburg,

> Jesse <jesse.brandeburg@intel.com>; Nguyen, Anthony L

> <anthony.l.nguyen@intel.com>; davem@davemloft.net; kuba@kernel.org;

> shuah@kernel.org; arnd@arndb.de; nikolay@nvidia.com;

> cong.wang@bytedance.com; colin.king@canonical.com;

> gustavoars@kernel.org; Bross, Kevin <kevin.bross@intel.com>; Stanton,

> Kevin B <kevin.b.stanton@intel.com>; Ahmad Byagowi <abyagowi@fb.com>

> Subject: Re: [RFC net-next 1/7] ptp: Add interface for acquiring DPLL state

> 

> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 10:36:03PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> 

> > OK, Let's take a step back and forget about SyncE.

> 

> Ahem, the title of this series is:

> 

>     [RFC net-next 0/7] Add basic SyncE interfaces

> 

> I'd be happy to see support for configuring SyncE.

> 

> But I guess this series is about something totally different.

> 

> 

> Thanks,

> Richard


If it helps we'd be happy to separate that in 2 separate RFCs.
This was squashed together under SyncE support umbrella to show one of the use cases, but PTP changes are more generic and cover all PTP clocks that use DPLL for the physical clock generation.

Regards
Maciek
Richard Cochran Aug. 20, 2021, 3:55 p.m. UTC | #12
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 03:40:22PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> If it helps we'd be happy to separate that in 2 separate RFCs.


It would help me if you could explain the connection.  I have a
totally different understanding of SyncE which I explained here:

   https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/20150317161128.GA8793@localhost.localdomain/

So you need to implement two things, one in kernel and one in user
space.

1. Control bits according to IEEE 802.3 Section 40.5.2 as Ethtool or RTNL.

2. User space Ethernet Synchronization Messaging Channel (ESMC)
   service according to IEEE 802.3ay

The PHY should be automatically controlled by #1.

As I said before, none of this belongs in the PHC subsystem.

Thanks,
Richard
Machnikowski, Maciej Aug. 20, 2021, 6:30 p.m. UTC | #13
> -----Original Message-----

> From: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>

> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 5:56 PM

> To: Machnikowski, Maciej <maciej.machnikowski@intel.com>

> Cc: Kubalewski, Arkadiusz <arkadiusz.kubalewski@intel.com>; linux-

> kernel@vger.kernel.org; intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org;

> netdev@vger.kernel.org; linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org; Brandeburg,

> Jesse <jesse.brandeburg@intel.com>; Nguyen, Anthony L

> <anthony.l.nguyen@intel.com>; davem@davemloft.net; kuba@kernel.org;

> shuah@kernel.org; arnd@arndb.de; nikolay@nvidia.com;

> cong.wang@bytedance.com; colin.king@canonical.com;

> gustavoars@kernel.org; Bross, Kevin <kevin.bross@intel.com>; Stanton,

> Kevin B <kevin.b.stanton@intel.com>; Ahmad Byagowi <abyagowi@fb.com>

> Subject: Re: [RFC net-next 1/7] ptp: Add interface for acquiring DPLL state

> 

> 1. Control bits according to IEEE 802.3 Section 40.5.2 as Ethtool or RTNL.

> 

> 2. User space Ethernet Synchronization Messaging Channel (ESMC)

>    service according to IEEE 802.3ay

> 

> The PHY should be automatically controlled by #1.

> 

> As I said before, none of this belongs in the PHC subsystem.

> 

> Thanks,

> Richard


Sure!

I did a talk at netDev 0x15 covering SyncE - you can refer to the slides for more detailed info, and hopefully the recording will be available soon as well:
https://netdevconf.info/0x15/session.html?Introduction-to-time-synchronization-over-Ethernet

At its core - SyncE requires 2 parts (see slide 22/23)
 - SyncE capable PHY
 - the external DPLL

The SyncE capable PHY is a PHY that can recover the physical clock, at which the data symbols are transferred, (usually) divide it and output it to the external PLL. It can also redirect the recovered and divided clock to more than one pin.
Since the 40.5.2 is not applicable to higher-speed ethernet which don't use auto-negotiation, but rather the link training sequence where the RX side always syncs its clock to the TX side.

The external DPLL tunes the frequency generated by a crystal to the frequency recovered by the PHY, and drives the outputs.

On the other end - the SyncE PHY uses the clock generated by the DPLL to transmit the data to the next element.

So to be able to control SyncE we need 2 interfaces:
- Interface to enable the recovered clock output at the given pin
- interface to monitor the DPLL to see if the clock that we got is valid, or not.

If it comes to ESMC (G.8264) messages, SyncE itself can run in 2 modes (slides 29/30 will give you more details):
- QL-Disabled - with no ESMC messages - it base on the local information from the PLL to make all decisions
- QL-Enabled - that adds ESMC and quality message transfer between the nodes.

Additionally, the SyncE DPLL can be synchronized to the external sources, like a 1PPS or a 10M signal from the GNSS.

That's why the RFC proposes 2 interfaces:
- one for enabling redirected clock on a selected pin of the PHY
- one for the physical frequency lock of the DPLL

The connection with the PTP subsystem is that in most use cases I heard about SyncE is used as a physical frequency syntonization for PTP clocks.
Hence adding a DPLL monitoring there would solve 2 issues at the same time - monitoring of a GNSS-syntonized PTP clock and the SyncE syntonized one and would make a single point to monitor by the upper layer applications.

Let me know if that makes more sense now. We could add a separate SyncE and separate PTP DPLL monitoring interfaces, but in most cases they will point to the same device.

Regards
Maciek
Richard Cochran Aug. 22, 2021, 1:50 a.m. UTC | #14
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 06:30:02PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> I did a talk at netDev 0x15 covering SyncE - you can refer to the slides for more detailed info, and hopefully the recording will be available soon as well:

> https://netdevconf.info/0x15/session.html?Introduction-to-time-synchronization-over-Ethernet


These slides are very clear and nicely done!

( And they also confirm that (ab)using the PHC chardev ioctl for the DPLL
stuff is the wrong interface ;^)

> The SyncE capable PHY is a PHY that can recover the physical clock,

> at which the data symbols are transferred, (usually) divide it and

> output it to the external PLL. It can also redirect the recovered

> and divided clock to more than one pin.


Right, and as your slides show so clearly, the DPLL is connected to
the PHY, not to the time stamping unit with the PTP clock.

> Since the 40.5.2 is not applicable to higher-speed ethernet which

> don't use auto-negotiation, but rather the link training sequence

> where the RX side always syncs its clock to the TX side.


I really want an interface that will also work with Gigabit and even
100 Megabit like the PHYTER (which does support SyncE).
 
> The external DPLL tunes the frequency generated by a crystal to the frequency recovered by the PHY, and drives the outputs.

> 

> On the other end - the SyncE PHY uses the clock generated by the DPLL to transmit the data to the next element.


So I guess that this is an implementation detail of the higher speed PHYs.

> That's why the RFC proposes 2 interfaces:

> - one for enabling redirected clock on a selected pin of the PHY

> - one for the physical frequency lock of the DPLL

> 

> The connection with the PTP subsystem is that in most use cases I

> heard about SyncE is used as a physical frequency syntonization for

> PTP clocks.


As your slides correctly show, SyncE is about distributing frequency
and not about Phase/ToD.  Of course you can combine SyncE with PTP to
get both, provided that you disable frequency adjustment in the PTP
software stack (in linuxptp, this is the "nullf" servo).  But SyncE in
fact predates PTP, and it can and should be configurable even on
interfaces that lack PHC altogther (or on kernels without PHC
enabled).

> Let me know if that makes more sense now. We could add a separate

> SyncE and separate PTP DPLL monitoring interfaces, but in most cases

> they will point to the same device.


This is just a coincidence of the device you are working with.  The
kernel really needs an interface that works with all kind of hardware
setups.  Imagine a computer with discrete MACs with HW time
stamping/PHC and discrete PHYs with SyncE support.  The PHC driver
won't have any connection to the PHY+DPLL.

Your API must be on the interface/MAC, with the possibility being
handled directly by the MAC driver (for integrated devices) or calling
into the PHY layers (phylib, phylink, and drivers/phy).

If you need a DPLL monitoring interface for your card, it ought to go
through the network interface to the MAC/PHY driver and then to the
DPLL itself.  That way, it will work with different types of hardware.

Thanks,
Richard
Richard Cochran Aug. 22, 2021, 2:30 a.m. UTC | #15
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 06:30:02PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> Since the 40.5.2 is not applicable to higher-speed ethernet which

> don't use auto-negotiation, but rather the link training sequence

> where the RX side always syncs its clock to the TX side.


By "the RX side always syncs its clock to the TX side" do you mean the
RX channel synchronizes to the link partner's TX channel?

Wow, that brings back the 100 megabit scheme I guess.  That's cool,
because the same basic idea applies to the PHYTER then.

Still we are doing to need a way for user space to query the HW
topology to discover whether a given ports may be syntonized from a
second port.  I don't think your pin selection thing works unless user
space can tell what the pins are connected to.

Thanks,
Richard
Machnikowski, Maciej Aug. 23, 2021, 8:29 a.m. UTC | #16
> -----Original Message-----

> From: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>

> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 4:31 AM

> Subject: Re: [RFC net-next 1/7] ptp: Add interface for acquiring DPLL state

> 

> On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 06:30:02PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> 

> > Since the 40.5.2 is not applicable to higher-speed ethernet which

> > don't use auto-negotiation, but rather the link training sequence

> > where the RX side always syncs its clock to the TX side.

> 

> By "the RX side always syncs its clock to the TX side" do you mean the RX

> channel synchronizes to the link partner's TX channel?

> 

> Wow, that brings back the 100 megabit scheme I guess.  That's cool, because

> the same basic idea applies to the PHYTER then.

> 


Yes! Sounds very similar! :)

> Still we are doing to need a way for user space to query the HW topology to

> discover whether a given ports may be syntonized from a second port.  I

> don't think your pin selection thing works unless user space can tell what the

> pins are connected to.

> 

> Thanks,

> Richard


And a good catch! I'll update the RFC to add the query functionality and move the SyncE logic/pins to the netdev subsystem.

Thanks
Richard Cochran Aug. 30, 2021, 9:06 p.m. UTC | #17
On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 06:30:02PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> So to be able to control SyncE we need 2 interfaces:

> - Interface to enable the recovered clock output at the given pin

> - interface to monitor the DPLL to see if the clock that we got is valid, or not.

> 

> If it comes to ESMC (G.8264) messages, SyncE itself can run in 2 modes (slides 29/30 will give you more details):

> - QL-Disabled - with no ESMC messages - it base on the local information from the PLL to make all decisions

> - QL-Enabled - that adds ESMC and quality message transfer between the nodes.


How do you get the QL codes from this?

+enum if_eec_state {
+       IF_EEC_STATE_INVALID = 0,
+       IF_EEC_STATE_FREERUN,
+       IF_EEC_STATE_LOCKACQ,
+       IF_EEC_STATE_LOCKREC,
+       IF_EEC_STATE_LOCKED,
+       IF_EEC_STATE_HOLDOVER,
+       IF_EEC_STATE_OPEN_LOOP,
+       __IF_EEC_STATE_MAX,
+};

Thanks,
Richard
Machnikowski, Maciej Aug. 31, 2021, 9:29 a.m. UTC | #18
> -----Original Message-----

> From: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>

> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 11:06 PM

> To: Machnikowski, Maciej <maciej.machnikowski@intel.com>

> Subject: Re: [RFC net-next 1/7] ptp: Add interface for acquiring DPLL state

> 

> On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 06:30:02PM +0000, Machnikowski, Maciej wrote:

> 

> > So to be able to control SyncE we need 2 interfaces:

> > - Interface to enable the recovered clock output at the given pin

> > - interface to monitor the DPLL to see if the clock that we got is valid, or

> not.

> >

> > If it comes to ESMC (G.8264) messages, SyncE itself can run in 2 modes

> (slides 29/30 will give you more details):

> > - QL-Disabled - with no ESMC messages - it base on the local information

> from the PLL to make all decisions

> > - QL-Enabled - that adds ESMC and quality message transfer between the

> nodes.

> 

> How do you get the QL codes from this?

> 

> +enum if_eec_state {

> +       IF_EEC_STATE_INVALID = 0,

> +       IF_EEC_STATE_FREERUN,

> +       IF_EEC_STATE_LOCKACQ,

> +       IF_EEC_STATE_LOCKREC,

> +       IF_EEC_STATE_LOCKED,

> +       IF_EEC_STATE_HOLDOVER,

> +       IF_EEC_STATE_OPEN_LOOP,

> +       __IF_EEC_STATE_MAX,

> +};


This structure is for monitoring the lock state - or in other words - quality 
of incoming sync signal. 

The Locked state here means that the frequency used for transmitting the 
data is syntonized with the input one. If something goes wrong, like the 
frequency you recover from the link goes beyond the specified range or 
the external signal is lost, the QL level will change accordingly.

The application layer running on top of this API needs to get the proper
QL level from the config file (just like the clockClass in PTP) and broadcast
it when the state is locked and switch to QL-DNU when you get out of 
the lock state and expire preset hw-dependent holdover clock.

Also, if you are syntonizing to the SyncE clock you need to wait with
passing along QL-levels until the state reported by the EEC changes
to LOCKED.

Regards
Maciek