| Message ID | 5847E1D6.5040509@redhat.com |
|---|---|
| State | New |
| Headers | show |
this makes sense to me. might be good to get wider opinion about new strftime flags though. -mike
7.12.2016 16:39 Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote: > [...] might be good to get wider opinion about new > strftime flags though. > -mike Now I lean a little against this change. As I wrote before, I'd love to see a flag to change the first letter to uppercase (or to titlecase, if that's more appropriate). A flag to change whole string to lowercase would be a workaround for this problem if we also converted all months and weekdays names to the titlecase in all languages, like in English now. So we would have: - titlecase by default, - lowercase if a flag is added explicitly, - uppercase if a flag is added explicitly. All reasonable cases covered. Except that converting all locale data would cause some problems to existing software and that it wouldn't help the applications which retrieve the months names or weekdays names with nl_langinfo() rather than strftime(). So indeed I think that a flag to convert to titlecase would be more useful. But in that case, do you guys think that converting to lowercase is useful if all letters are either lowercase already or should be always as they are now? Can you explain why would any application ever need the lowercase which should be provided by a format flag rather than converting programmatically? It seems to be useful only if some locales want to convert some data to lowercase and they don't have it lowercase out of the box. Regards, Rafal
On 09 Dec 2016 02:14, Rafal Luzynski wrote: > 7.12.2016 16:39 Mike Frysinger wrote: > > [...] might be good to get wider opinion about new > > strftime flags though. > > Now I lean a little against this change. As I wrote before, > I'd love to see a flag to change the first letter to uppercase > (or to titlecase, if that's more appropriate). A flag to change > whole string to lowercase would be a workaround for this problem > if we also converted all months and weekdays names to the > titlecase in all languages, like in English now. i don't think changing the locale data or forcing titlecase everywhere makes sense. the data is already in the standard format that users expect for their locale. having a flag to support that seems like a good way to get developers to naively enforce their own expectations onto users. "my language writes things like 'Dec', therefore every language out there must use titlecase". forcing to all uppercase or lowercase seems a bit more reasonable in certain outputs (everything is upper/lower case beyond the date). > But in that case, do you guys think that converting to lowercase > is useful if all letters are either lowercase already or should > be always as they are now? Can you explain why would any application > ever need the lowercase which should be provided by a format flag > rather than converting programmatically? It seems to be useful > only if some locales want to convert some data to lowercase and > they don't have it lowercase out of the box. we already have a flag to force it to uppercase. makes sense to have a flag to do the opposite. your arguments here apply to the uppercase flag too. -mike
9.12.2016 05:07 Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > On 09 Dec 2016 02:14, Rafal Luzynski wrote: > > 7.12.2016 16:39 Mike Frysinger wrote: > > > [...] might be good to get wider opinion about new > > > strftime flags though. > > > > Now I lean a little against this change. As I wrote before, > > I'd love to see a flag to change the first letter to uppercase > > (or to titlecase, if that's more appropriate). A flag to change > > whole string to lowercase would be a workaround for this problem > > if we also converted all months and weekdays names to the > > titlecase in all languages, like in English now. > > i don't think changing the locale data or forcing titlecase everywhere > makes sense. the data is already in the standard format that users > expect for their locale. having a flag to support that seems like a > good way to get developers to naively enforce their own expectations > onto users. "my language writes things like 'Dec', therefore every > language out there must use titlecase". That's really not what I meant. I meant that switching all locale data to titlecase would be possible only if there was a flag to switch back to lowercase. Yes, in my language (and I think that in most languages) we have all months names and weekdays names in lowercase and this is correct by default. But we have no flag to switch to titlecase and I think it would be useful sometimes. > > forcing to all uppercase or lowercase seems a bit more reasonable in > certain outputs (everything is upper/lower case beyond the date). > > > But in that case, do you guys think that converting to lowercase > > is useful if all letters are either lowercase already or should > > be always as they are now? Can you explain why would any application > > ever need the lowercase which should be provided by a format flag > > rather than converting programmatically? It seems to be useful > > only if some locales want to convert some data to lowercase and > > they don't have it lowercase out of the box. > > we already have a flag to force it to uppercase. makes sense to have > a flag to do the opposite. your arguments here apply to the uppercase > flag too. > -mike No, does not. I didn't say anything about uppercase, if I had to say I'd say it's correct so let's leave it as it is now. What I wanted to say is that we don't have a flag to switch to titlecase. My question was: what is the real problem solved by implementing a flag to switch to lowercase? And my suggestion is that it would be useful only if a locale allows all-lowercase months or weekdays but locale data deliver non-lowercase. For example titlecase. This would solve two problems: - provide titlecase, - provide an easy way to generate lowercase. Regards, Rafal
On 09 Dec 2016 12:00, Rafal Luzynski wrote: > 9.12.2016 05:07 Mike Frysinger wrote: > > On 09 Dec 2016 02:14, Rafal Luzynski wrote: > > > 7.12.2016 16:39 Mike Frysinger wrote: > > > > [...] might be good to get wider opinion about new > > > > strftime flags though. > > > > > > Now I lean a little against this change. As I wrote before, > > > I'd love to see a flag to change the first letter to uppercase > > > (or to titlecase, if that's more appropriate). A flag to change > > > whole string to lowercase would be a workaround for this problem > > > if we also converted all months and weekdays names to the > > > titlecase in all languages, like in English now. > > > > i don't think changing the locale data or forcing titlecase everywhere > > makes sense. the data is already in the standard format that users > > expect for their locale. having a flag to support that seems like a > > good way to get developers to naively enforce their own expectations > > onto users. "my language writes things like 'Dec', therefore every > > language out there must use titlecase". > > That's really not what I meant. I meant that switching all locale > data to titlecase would be possible only if there was a flag to > switch back to lowercase. i'm saying the flags are irrelevant. the data should be in the form that is appropriate for that locale. that might mean uppercase, or lowercase, or titlecase. flags would not help at all, and in fact, they would make things worse. en_US authors would see that, think that it's weird looking, and then use the titlecase flag. then it'd be broken for many other locales. > Yes, in my language (and I think that in most languages) we have > all months names and weekdays names in lowercase and this is correct > by default. But we have no flag to switch to titlecase and > I think it would be useful sometimes. i have a hard time seeing a valid usecase where the code forcing titlecase all the time would be desirable. forcing all lower or upper case isn't that hard to imagine (e.g. output forms where *all* content, not just dates, are in the respective cases). > > forcing to all uppercase or lowercase seems a bit more reasonable in > > certain outputs (everything is upper/lower case beyond the date). > > > > > But in that case, do you guys think that converting to lowercase > > > is useful if all letters are either lowercase already or should > > > be always as they are now? Can you explain why would any application > > > ever need the lowercase which should be provided by a format flag > > > rather than converting programmatically? It seems to be useful > > > only if some locales want to convert some data to lowercase and > > > they don't have it lowercase out of the box. > > > > we already have a flag to force it to uppercase. makes sense to have > > a flag to do the opposite. your arguments here apply to the uppercase > > flag too. > > No, does not. I didn't say anything about uppercase, if I had > to say I'd say it's correct so let's leave it as it is now. > What I wanted to say is that we don't have a flag to switch > to titlecase. > > My question was: what is the real problem solved by implementing > a flag to switch to lowercase? i didn't say you talked about uppercase. my point is that your argument isn't specific to lowercase. you could s/lower/upper/ and have the same points. so why do you think having uppercase makes sense but adding lowercase is wrong ? > And my suggestion is that it would be useful only if a locale > allows all-lowercase months or weekdays but locale data deliver > non-lowercase. For example titlecase. This would solve two problems: > - provide titlecase, > - provide an easy way to generate lowercase. locale data cannot be changed. adding flags to transform their case would not help the situation at all, just make it worse. -mike
9.12.2016 17:20 Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > On 09 Dec 2016 12:00, Rafal Luzynski wrote: > > [...] > > That's really not what I meant. I meant that switching all locale > > data to titlecase would be possible only if there was a flag to > > switch back to lowercase. > > i'm saying the flags are irrelevant. the data should be in the form > that is appropriate for that locale. that might mean uppercase, or > lowercase, or titlecase. flags would not help at all, and in fact, > they would make things worse. en_US authors would see that, think > that it's weird looking, and then use the titlecase flag. then it'd > be broken for many other locales. Format strings should be translatable and it should be left to translators what format string and what flags they want. An application should present all messages, format strings, and date/time data either in en_US or all should be localized, otherwise we get some unfinished mix of localized/not-yet-localized. So although it's correct to use titlecase in English it should not be relevant for other languages. > > Yes, in my language (and I think that in most languages) we have > > all months names and weekdays names in lowercase and this is correct > > by default. But we have no flag to switch to titlecase and > > I think it would be useful sometimes. > > i have a hard time seeing a valid usecase where the code forcing > titlecase all the time would be desirable. No, I didn't mean a code forcing titlecase all the time. My aim is to provide a choice: lowercase/titlecase/uppercase, for each format specifier individually. For now in English (and German) we have titlecase/uppercase, in other languages we have lowercase/uppercase. What is a solution to provide the missing case? > forcing all lower or > upper case isn't that hard to imagine (e.g. output forms where > *all* content, not just dates, are in the respective cases). I agree with the uppercase, but is it really useful to have all lowercase in English? > > > [...] > > > we already have a flag to force it to uppercase. makes sense to have > > > a flag to do the opposite. your arguments here apply to the uppercase > > > flag too. > > > > No, does not. I didn't say anything about uppercase, if I had > > to say I'd say it's correct so let's leave it as it is now. > > What I wanted to say is that we don't have a flag to switch > > to titlecase. > > > > My question was: what is the real problem solved by implementing > > a flag to switch to lowercase? > > i didn't say you talked about uppercase. my point is that your argument > isn't specific to lowercase. you could s/lower/upper/ and have the same > points. so why do you think having uppercase makes sense but adding > lowercase is wrong ? Because we already have all data in lowercase. No need to convert from lowercase to lowercase. More precisely: in some languages the data are in titlecase but should remain so, converting them to lowercase is incorrect. My point is not that lowercase flag is wrong or destructive, I just think it does not provide any additional value. A separate problem is that there is no flag to convert to titlecase. My suggestion is that if we had locale data in titlecase (like in English) and a flag to convert them to lowercase explicitly then it would be a workaround. Of course a titlecase flag would be better. But, again, that's a separate case, only similar to the lowercase flag. Regards, Rafal
Hi, This thread has been started almost one year ago [1] but has been inactive for last 4 months. [2] What is its current progress? Do you guys think about continuing this work and eventually committing it to the main repo? I think that my previous comments could be misunderstood. I didn't mean that the patch is bad, I just wonder what is its application and whether Jakub, the author, can see any and whether it is the same application as I see. Regards, Rafal [1] https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2016-05/msg00259.html [2] https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2016-12/msg00034.html
From 1289b48ee174bda5dc6266df1ed216f172fc5dd4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Jakub Martisko <jamartis@redhat.com> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 10:52:08 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] time/stfrtime_l.c: add lowercase support * [BZ #15527] * time/strftime_l.c (__strftime_internal): Implement conversion to all lowercase. * manual/time.texi: Document # and , flags. * time/tst-strftime.c (do_test): Test case conversion. --- manual/time.texi | 8 ++++++++ time/strftime_l.c | 4 +++- time/tst-strftime.c | 30 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 3 files changed, 41 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/manual/time.texi b/manual/time.texi index f94cbe4..39ed062 100644 --- a/manual/time.texi +++ b/manual/time.texi @@ -1352,6 +1352,14 @@ with spaces. @item ^ The output uses uppercase characters, but only if this is possible (@pxref{Case Conversion}). + +@item # +The output uses opposite case, but only if this is possible +(@pxref{Case Conversion}). + +@item , +The output uses lowercase characters, but only if this is possible +(@pxref{Case Conversion}). @end table The default action is to pad the number with zeros to keep it a constant diff --git a/time/strftime_l.c b/time/strftime_l.c index 1205035..6ed5f63 100644 --- a/time/strftime_l.c +++ b/time/strftime_l.c @@ -671,7 +671,9 @@ __strftime_internal (CHAR_T *s, size_t maxsize, const CHAR_T *format, case L_('#'): change_case = 1; continue; - + case L_(','): + to_lowcase = 1; + continue; default: break; } diff --git a/time/tst-strftime.c b/time/tst-strftime.c index af3ff72..258d40a 100644 --- a/time/tst-strftime.c +++ b/time/tst-strftime.c @@ -154,6 +154,36 @@ do_test (void) } } + const struct + { + const char *fmt; + const char *exp; + size_t n; + } ctests[] = + { + { "%^A", "SUNDAY", 6 }, + { "%,A", "sunday", 6 }, + { "%A", "Sunday", 6 }, + }; +#define nctests (sizeof (ctests) / sizeof (ctests[0])) + for (cnt = 0; cnt < nctests; ++cnt) + { + char buf[100]; + size_t r = strftime (buf, sizeof (buf), ctests[cnt].fmt, &ttm); + if (r != ctests[cnt].n) + { + printf ("strftime(\"%s\") returned %zu not %zu\n", + ctests[cnt].fmt, r, ctests[cnt].n); + result = 1; + } + if (strcmp (buf, ctests[cnt].exp) != 0) + { + printf ("strftime(\"%s\") produced \"%s\" not \"%s\"\n", + ctests[cnt].fmt, buf, ctests[cnt].exp); + result = 1; + } + } + return result + do_bz18985 (); } -- 2.5.5